=== JIMENEZ EYES AAA STARDOM ===
YOWCH! He had a no-no into the 8th or 9th inning, last time out …
Monday? Senor Jimenez fires yet another shutout — 8 IP, 0 R, with five hits, 2 walks and 1 strikeout.
Leaving him with this string of bodies littered on the roadway behind his coche:
7/03 - 8 IP, 0 R … 2 BB 1 K (five hits)
6/28 - 9 IP, 0 R … 2 BB 4 K (one hit)
6/23 - 5 IP, 1 R … 6 BB 4 K (two hits)
6/16 - 6 IP, 0 R … 2 BB 5 K (five hits)
6/11 - 5 IP, 0 R … 2 BB 2 K (four hits)
6/05 - 5 IP, 0 R … 3 BB 3 K (two hits)
Prior to this streak, he was 1-5, 6.64 in his first exposure to AAA at 21. Well, not exactly his first exposure; he got 7 IP at the end of 2005. But you know what we mean; he's in the PCL very young.
Jimenez is reported to throw an 89 fastball, an excellent change that is his money pitch, and is reported to be working on his curve. His statlines and career arc suggest that, for his age, he is really good at knowing how to set up that change (high K's for that kind of toolbox), and pretty good at keeping the FB out of the wheelhouse (low ERA for age, level, and lack of velocity).
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=== BPV's Dept. ===
Mr. Jemanji: Whew, 1 run in 38 innings? Musta been dealin', right?
Dr. Detecto: Not so fast … that's 19 K and 17 BB. If I hadn't showed the ER, you'd have actually said he'd been struggling.
Mr. Jemanji: 19 hits in 38 innings? Nobody's getting a bat on the ball against him…
Dr. Detecto: But his K rate has been only 4.5, below average, so he's just been fantastically lucky on BABIP, right? Case closed. He's had a BABIP miracle for 38 innings. Fuhgeddaboudit.
Mr. Jemanji: But change-of-speed artists get weak swings, right, like Moyer and Zito do? So the BABIP isn't necessarily lucky, especially in the short term?
Dr. Detecto: But BABIP can't deflect by 100+ points. Some of that is bound to be luck.
Mr. Jemanji: But also notice the 0 HR in 38 innings. No doubt this 38-inning stretch has involved a lot of garbage swings by hitters out on their front foot. He's been whipping the hitters.
Dr. Detecto: Well, I agree with you on one thing. BABIP and HR/FB and xFIP and all those stats have become a dogma-Jekyll from which we all need to Hyde. BABIP doesn't say that every individual 2-hit, 1-K shutout is luck; it only says that in the very long term, like 400 innings, breaks even out.
It does sound like Jimenez has been just flat beating the hitters for a month.
……………
Summing it all up, then? For sure Jimenez has had the benefit of a couple hot shots a game that were at fielders.
But just as sure is the fact that change-speed Jimenez has been getting batters to flail weakly and defensively at the ball. BABIP is reliable in the long term, but in the short term (say, 1 game, or 4 games) a pitcher might easily produce a whole game full of terrible swings.
Jimenez hasn't been dominant, not with a 19/17 control ratio. But he has "jelled" in terms of tricking AAA batters and pulling the string on them. The light had to have come on for him, and he's on a nice roll of out-thinking the batters.
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=== SCOUTING REPORT ===
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's JFro! …and G-Money. Who have followed Jimenez quite a while. And here's a LINK. For those of you who haven't been to Mariner Minors, these guys are Baseball America-quality minors reporters. Except they specialize in the M's, so they're better. Mariner Minors is a treasure.
Bear in mind that this is a preseason report.
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Cesar Jimenez, 11/12/1984, 5’11”, 190 lbs, LHP
3-5, 2.62 ERA in 68.2 IP, 64 hits (3 HR), 21 runs (20 ER), 54/24 K/BBJ: After Travis Blackley went under the knife last year, G and I had a short debate as to who currently had the best change-up in the system, Bobby Livingston or Cesar Jimenez? G’s already made his case for the guy who he thinks has the best change, so let me step in and make my argument for who I think has some of the best speed changing instincts in the org.
By most accounts you’ll hear, Jimenez was a two-pitch pitcher from when he was signed on through the end of last season. Most of the guys you’ll hear about who’ve pulled this trick off through the low minors are power pitchers, and their repertoire usually consists of a fastball and a wicked breaking pitch. In Jimenez’ case, he didn’t have that added velocity advantage, and instead sits in the high 80’s, about major league average, and had no breaking pitch to speak of, relying instead on a change-up thrown at the appropriate time. With just that, he was striking out 7.1 per nine since coming to the U.S.
While this is all good and fine for the lower levels of the minor leagues, around double-A, hitters start to recognize to recognize change-ups, and I feared that something terrible would happen once Cesar got to Texas. Then, all winter on the Lara Cardenales message board, I kept hearing about this curveball he’d started throwing… and by the time he got to Texas this year, it seemed to be at least a passable pitch, or at least the comments about him lacking a breaking ball have died down significantly.
His stuff is still screaming more starter than reliever, and he seems to survive—scratch that, dominate every LVBP season that he’s down there, so maybe he’ll head back at some point, but there’s no denying it: the kid knows how to pitch, even if he doesn’t have great velocity.
G: First allow me to say blast you, JFrom, for reminding me of the devastation of the Blackley surgery.” Talk about a soft-tossing supreme talent…
But then the Ms seem to want to stockpile those. We’ve signed dozens trying to recapture the Moyer Magic, but it’s possible we finally found it in an undrafted free agent from Venezuela. If not, we may at least be on the right track to find us a Trevor Hoffman.
Cesar’s work as a starter in our system is not bad – merely undistinguished. We moved him to the pen full-time in 2004, whether to protect his teenage arm or to try to raise his mediocre strikeouts I couldn’t say, but his Ks jumped by 3 per 9 with the move and he’s never looked back.
For a changeup pitcher he does a good job of keeping the ball in the park (20 HR in 300+ IP) and with the curve JFrom mentioned he’s adding another pitch for batters to see and have to keep in the back of their minds. We just talked about how young Fruto is, but Cesar’s 6 months younger and has never been plagued with Fruitcake’s maddening inconsistencies.
He, too, has time to hone his craft, but even as-is he’s quite an interesting arm. With his one plus pitch – the changeup – and a passable FB and hook, he could do quite well for the Ms. I don’t think they’re going to let him try to start again, but as long as he keeps striking batters out I’m sure we can find a job for him somewhere…
Good job as always, amigos.
.
=== Dr's Prognosis ===
Haven't seen Jimenez yet in person and he doesn't start in Cheney for quite a while, I don't think.
Let's assume that Jimenez really has this crackerjack straight change, and let's further assume that he has excellent poise and pitchability (very likely, considering his age and league and the M's fast promotions of him).
In that case, the key issue is his mistake avoidance — his HR rate.
JOHN BENSON LAW: AAA pitchers are very, very good pitchers, amigos. They are absolutely excellent. The differences between an average ML pitcher, and a very good AAA pitcher, are subtle.
The differences between a good ML pitcher who is an 89-mph lefty, and a good AAA pitcher who is an 89-mph lefty, are especially subtle.
Mark Beuhrle and Tom Glavine and Scott McGregor and Jimmy Key are (were) special because they could go an entire game without centering a fastball. That will be the biggest thing for Jimenez also — can he make FEWER mistakes than OTHER good PCL lefties.
This isn't something that is easy to project, especially not having seen him or his mechanics. We'll have to leave ya with an admonition to watch Jimenez' HR rates. They have to be very low, and especially they have to be very low without walking people. In other words, he has to have command in the zone without "nibbling" and throwing pitches OFF the plate. (His K/BB ratios, and his high BB vs low H — those suggest that he is doing just that, nibbling.)
Jimenez' career doesn't depend on his developing a plus curve ball — you can pitch in the bigs with a terrific straight change and a fastball. But he DOES have to paint with the FB and does have to keep the change down.
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=== Paul-age Dept. ===
Paul at Mariner Morsels has some sweet pics on Sr. Jimenez:






Interesting screwball action here.
Need to see him pitch, but it's a drop-and-drive in the styles of Jeff Fassero and Bobby Madritsch. Note the belt buckle and chest in the 2nd photo.
Can't say I like the followthrough or the elbow action from a DL standpoint, but hey. Whatever. Gotta go see him.
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=== Rocky MCXLIIQS Dept. ===
Dr. D is quick to believe in this kind of pitcher … right after he finishes 200 IP with a 3.50 ERA in Safeco, we'll be right on his bandwagon.
The difference between Mark Buehrle and 1,000 Cesar Jimenezes is hair-fine. Will Jimenez be one of the few who achieve the phenomenal mistake avoidance that separates him from other AAA pitchers like him? Who knows. Doubt it.
But he is obviously young, and I'm pretty sure he's lefty, and he has to have a good head judging by the M's rushing of him and by his quick adjustment this year …
The thing to do with underdogs like Cesar Jimenez and Bryan LaHair is to simply let them play. Keep promoting them and see what you have. It doesn't matter to Bryan LaHair that he still isn't on USSM's top Mariner 40, despite his rampage through 3 levels of the minors — it only matters whether he can hit a PCL curve ball.
It doesn't matter to Cesar Jimenez whether Dr. D predicts him for stardom — it only matters whether he commands his fastball and keeps his change down and gets AL hitters out.
Let him pitch. See what you have. It's all about who performs. And right now, Jimenez and LaHair are the ones who are whuppin' the other PCL'ers.
Cheers,
Dr D












December 28th, 2007 at 3:22 pm Quote
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February 7th, 2008 at 9:07 am Quote
Wanted to draw people’s attention to the Sherrill role.
Cesar Jimenez
5-11, 180 Venezuelan LHP
Here’s a guy who hasn’t gotten much blog love lately. Probably because he spent 2006 as a mediocre starter (except for one hot streak) at Tacoma. Or because he stunk in a cup-of-coffee Sept. callup that year. Or because he missed the first part of 07 with injury. Or because he seems to have been caught and passed by same-age, same-handed Eric O’Flaherty.
But, it is worth noting that:
– he was sent to Everett at 17, meaning the team liked his potential
– he got that Sept. callup at age 21, meaning the team still liked his potential
– he keeps getting mentioned in team PR, meaning the team still likes his potential
– his numbers in relief are way better than as a starter
– he still is considered to have the best change in the system, and knows how to use it
At 17, he busted up Everett with 11.25 K/9, earning a ticket to the Wisconsin rotation at 18, where he wasn’t so great, though he had a nice 2.94 ERA. At 19, he was back in relief at Inland and was studly, and he went right-on-track to San Antonio and Tacoma at 20.
That put him in the Rainier rotation at 21, where he was uber-streaky (bad, great, mediocre), and his 7-inning MLB debut was ug-lee.
Then a stress fracture in his elbow in March 07 put him on the sidelines until July. He came back in relief.
There seems to be a pattern here:
Age
17 (NWL) Relief 11.25 K/9 2.25 BB/9
18 (Wisc) Starter 5.44 K/9 3.30 BB/9
19 (Inland) Relief 8.47 K/9 1.99 BB/9
20 (AA) Relief 7.43 K/9 2.95 BB/9
21 (AAA) Starter 5.49 K/9 4.33 BB/9
22 (AAA) Relief 8.39 K/9 4.38 BB/9
Then in VWL Relief 6.95 K/9 1.15 BB/9 (2 runs allowed in 23.1 IP)
Also, his platoon split (OPS v. RHP - OPS v. LHP)
2005 Relief .769 - .529 = .240
2006 Starter .697 - .767 = -.70
2007 Relief .842 - .699 = .143
Point being, here is a guy with a major-league change, and he has shown the ability to fool folks with it pretty well in short relief but has never shown consistency as a starter.
Sullivan, I believe, has made the point that RRS and Jimenez may not be well-suited to the LOOGY role because their best pitches are offspeed, which gives them better skills to handle both same- and opposite-handed hitters. But Jimenez has those solid splits above when used in relief. And Hoffman is a hall-of-famer based on knowing how to use the change in short relief.
Mostly wanted to get some focus back on Jimenez, even though I’m a big fan or RRS and EOF, because he’s shown some interesting flashes. I also think the team is very encouraged about the ability of Rhodes to come back in a LOOGY role on the repaired elbow.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:10 am Quote
Next question:
Has a team ever set up a bullpen based on a different devastating pitch from each guy? So as to match up based on pitch weakness as opposed to handedness? As in:
Putz – split
Lowe or Morrow – FB
RRS – curve
Jimenez – change
Dickey – knuckler
February 7th, 2008 at 12:18 pm Quote
Cesar Jiminez would make a nice choice for the 7th-inning-LOOGY. O’Flaherty would also make a good choice (his out pitch being the slider, which does not appear on your list above). Of course having two LOOGYs isn’t bad either. It gives you the power to mix and match like a mixy-matchy-fool. RRS is IMHO our 8th inning left-handed set-up man if I’m building a club with O’Flaherty and Jiminez the dual-LOOGY nightmare.
The rest of the pen is full of rubber arms who can start and Lowe and Putz (the power righties at the back end).
Putz (CL) - FB/SPLIT
Lowe (SUR) - FB/FOCH
Rowland-Smith (SUL) - FB/CURVE/CHANGE
Green (MRR) - SINKER/SLURVE
O’Flaherty/Jiminez (Dual LOOGY) - FB/SLIDER or CHANGE/SINKER
Morrow (LR) - FB/SPLIT/SLIDER
Neat how each reliever has a different arsenal so you’re getting totally different looks every time we change pitchers.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:41 pm Quote
I like watching Cesar pitch, and I’d be interested to see how he does in a relief role.
That role may boost his velocity, which has been sort of a sticking point.
The guy came up as one of the M’s myriad soft-tossing lefties, and that’s why he was under the radar a bit (as much as you can be for making an MLB debut at 21).
He was also something of a fly baller - something that worked well at times at Wolff/Cheney, but killed him in the bigs (HR/9 nearly 5 in his short stint), sort of like Bobby Livingston.
The interesting thing this winter has been his improved GB rate. That’ll be something to keep an eye on this season in tacoma. Is that real - a function of learning to keep the change down - or is it just a function of a playing against swing-at-anything, non-MLB-caliber hitters?
I wouldn’t put too much stock into his splits; he pitched fewer than 25 innings last year, and almost all were against righties (who also benefitted from a high BABIP against the rehabbing lefty).
Again, I’m more encouraged by his solid walk rate in winter league. I was much more concerned about his walks than anything, and he’ll have a better chance to stick as a control artist than as a lefty specialist (the change really should minimize his splits). Another thing to watch this year…
February 7th, 2008 at 1:11 pm Quote
Take Sherrill and Mickolio out of the picture, and you still have 11 pen candidates:
RH
Putz
Lowe
Morrow
Green
White
Reitsma
Dickey
LH
EOF
RRS
Jimenez
Rhodes
February 7th, 2008 at 1:18 pm Quote
Oops! Forgot Horacio! and Baek! and probably others, too.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:27 pm Quote
You forgot Red, Orange, Yellow, Blue, Violet and Purple too.
In all seriousness, you did forget to mention Feierabend and Reitsma.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:02 pm Quote
Like we say, I will be right on Jimenez’ bandwagon, the moment he posts a 120 ERA+ and a 2+ control ratio in Safeco over a large number of innings…
Not my idea of a situational lefty either…
Will be rooting for him, though…
February 11th, 2008 at 10:46 pm Quote
From S P-I:
Ichiro said that McLaren is very serious if he speaks and you can trust on him.
With this quote I think over 90% chance that Cesar Jimenez will take over the Sherill role.
BTW why don’t the sabr have winter ball stats to MLB translation. They have NPB to MLB or AAA to MLB but no winterball to MLB.
Also ZIPS Pecota etc don’t consider winterball stats.
But M’s FO have a look at it.
Anyway good thing is that Morrow White Looez and Jimenez had great winter ball.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:09 pm Quote
Winterball would be hard to translate because no one has made a concerted effort to save that data in a database format and even if they had it, the parks and locations are so radically different it would be tough to tell whether the park or the league quality was causing the changes in league offensive context.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:55 pm Quote
MLB.com has all the stats from winterball 2006/2007 season.
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/
February 12th, 2008 at 12:05 am Quote
yeah…the MLE’s are based on 20 years of data though…and they’re not that accurate.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:02 am Quote
.
MLE’s aren’t realistic IMHO, because the competition is a *mixture* of players ranging from ML level all the way down to class-A level.
If Jarrod Washburn faces a lineup of two major leaguers, one AAA player, three AA players and three low-minors players, what does his linescore mean?
And from one league to the next, one winter to the next, that proportion of ML-AAA-A players might be considerably different.
………………….
A second factor is there is no way to figure out which pitchers got the easier competition. (Even pitching in the American League, one pitcher might wind up with a considerably different quality-of-opponent than another one … even over the course of a whole year.)
………………….
A third factor is, an ML or a Quad-A pitcher can often run crazy-good K/BB’s when against slightly inferior competition.
………………….
For all that, it is worth LOOKING AT the fact that Cesar Jimenez outpitched (say) Victor Zambrano in the same league. As you can see from a quick-review of the stats, a lot of pitchers got wiped out by that league. Hideo Nomo, pitching for his career, got beaten to a pulp.
…………………..
All things considered, I’m mildly encouraged by Jimenez’ 6:1 control ratio in a tough league and moderately encouraged by the M’s enthusiasm… FWIW…
February 12th, 2008 at 1:06 am Quote
.
But on my team, is what you do when you don’t have a nails LOOGY, is you use a good RHP to get lefties out.
The platoon advantage is 40 points of AVG. Why use a quad-A pitcher when you have Mark Lowe?
First you need a good pitcher in there. Then, if you have a choice, you’d like the platoon advantage.
…………………………….
Still and all, that’s a cool heads-up on Cesar Jimenez. Remember Arthur Rhodes, though. If he’s healthy and throwing 90+ he’s probably first in line…
March 10th, 2008 at 4:33 am Quote
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July 6th, 2008 at 9:32 pm Quote
We need an updated POTD on Cesar Jimenez. He struck out 47 batters in 38 innings with only 8 walks in Tacoma, and now in 6 2/3 IP(including today’s lengthy appearance) in the majors he has 6 K’s, 2 walks and only 1 hit. He also is just as good against righties as lefties which means he is likely better than George Sherrill overall.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:10 pm Quote
Jimenez has Sherrill velocity on his fastball (90-91 consistently) and a much better off-speed pitch (the slurvy change) than Sherrill ever dreamed of. He seems to have ironed out his command and could become one of the best arms in the Mariner bullpen if that trend continues.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:44 pm Quote
High praise. Sherrill is a bona fide star in the major leagues now.
…………………..
Watched Jimenez with a lot of interest today … had no idea, none, that he had that kind of zip on the fastball.
Jimenez’ “calling card,” that which separates him from a Quad-A wannabe, is the deception. He’s a short-arm, side-arm (low 3/4) hide-the-ball type in the Sid Fernandez, and indeed George Sherrill mode. That’s a much different, and much better, template than what I (naively) had him assigned to.
………………………
He gets credit for a killer “changeup”, but to me his high-70’s pitch is a mild variation on the Sherrill slider. It’s six of one, half-a-dozen of the other. Whatever you call his “slurvy change” as Matt aptly put it, the problem is the same, that hitters can’t separate the arm action.
Jimenez does not *quite* have Sherrill’s deception and doesn’t *quite* have the snap on the slider, but boy, he’s awfully close.
And Jimenez does seem to have better command that GS52 does. The fact that his breaking pitch is more horizontal, and the (I think?) better command, may actually give Jimenez a better future vs RH.
My man Georgie Porgie was really just trying to throw a strike with that electric stuff. Jimenez’ stuff is a skosh less, but he is actually spotting it. Pretty dangerous, man.
…………………..
Also GS52 was always limited by the M’s to 1-to-3 batters. Jimenez obviously has no problem going 3, 4, 5 innings. Beautiful.
……………..
As you know, I was a Jimenez skeptic, but he showed an ML-impact game today.
If I were an M’s fan :- ) I’d be very excited. It seems the Mariners have racked another missile into the George Sherrill bay. If Jimenez throws like that, he can step right into the 8th.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:49 pm Quote
now…will they learn to trusts him faster than they trusted Sherrill?
July 6th, 2008 at 11:51 pm Quote
They learned today.
Seriously. That’s what happens, a guy goes out in extras, carries you, comes back to the dugout each half-inning with more respect. Jimenez even got some guys second-time-through, right?
Would expect that Jimenez will be in there, starting now, as a key lefty out of the pen. Rhodes has some deference left as he hits the wire, but he’ll be in the process of passing the baton, would think.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:09 am Quote
Rhodes is broken. He was needed today for that 15th inning but he was not available due to inability to get loose. Any day now I expect the announcement that he is going to the DL and that will be the end of the Rhodes revival tour.
Jimenez picked a really good day to have his absolute A game and to make a statement to the Mariners. He got 4 long innings to prove to them that he was ready to stick and contribute.
By the way…lost in the noise…Ryan Rowland-Smith got a lot of love in the post-game as well. The club is very pleased this year that its’ emergency starters are actually working, whereas last year, they were an unmitigated disaster.
Batista better have his A game Wednesday, or he’s going to be stuck in the pen for a long time.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:11 am Quote
I kind of hope Bautistia doesn;t have a good game on Wednesday, I DON’T want to see him stick back in the rotation, I was RRS there, and Morrow eventually, so I am rooting for a 4 or 5 run first with Burke pitching the rest of the way allowing no runs, and the M’s come back to win by 1
July 7th, 2008 at 11:55 am Quote
LOL
I want someone who is good pitching in the rotation. If Batista’s health has improved, he can be effective again, and that’s OK with me. Having Rowland-Smith at the back end of my bullpen is a HUGE positive weapon, especially for 15 inning games where we need the whole bullpen to be ready (it really killed our chances that Rhodes was hurt, Morrow was overused, and the starter was a reliever).
For now, I’d be OK with a King Felix/Bedard/Dickey/Silva/Batista rotation assuming we can find some fool to take on Washburn. Of course, RRS was impressive enough that I hope he gets more looks in the rotation eventually, but it would be good if we had a couple of major league ready long relief options on hand to back him up and right now, we just have Jimenez.