Ten Things I Hate About You (SABR Matt)
As you all may or may not believe, I don't go out of my way to disparage the "good guys" in blue, even when they are not performing for us in Seattle. I try very hard to stay optimistic and yet still objective (not a mutually exclusive thing like a certain major Mariner blog would have you believe), and I usually react badly when people pour on the acidic, negative anger and pessimism that is so common amongst Seattle residents. Despite my father's comment about my turning into a Philly fan (yes…that was my Dad…even I wasn't entirely certain before he admitted it…LOL), I would generally prefer to cling to hope than to spit bitterly onto the deck of the good ship Mariner and wish bad things on Bavasi.
That having been said, I've sat around and watched people try to explain this rough two week stretch. I've watched people I greatly respect turn off the TV and then claim they know what is going on. I've been quiet about blame being placed on the wrong shoulders for most of the last two weeks with a few exceptions. This post will document the ten moments in the last two weeks that define everything that is wrong with this team and will demonstrate clearly that the man who should be blamed is none other than John McLaren.
We're 2-13 in our last 15 games (including today's offensive outburst against Jeremy Bonderman and Jason Grilli). It can be difficult to remember what we were thinking and feeling 16 days ago, but let's rewind and then play out this string, documenting the key moments in each loss. The Mariners won that Friday night in Texas in a convincing pitcher’s duel with Felix Hernandez dominating early in the game and Jose Guillen once again leading the offensive charge. That win kept us a game back of the surging Angels in the AL West and moved us 4 games ahead of the Yankees in the loss column (3 games overall) while pushing our record to 73-53. Now, in chronological order, I give you the ten things I hate about McLaren’s management philosophy.
1) August 25th: With the Mariners and Rangers knotted at 3 apiece in the 7th inning and the Yankees already well on their way to another blowout victory, McLaren inexplicably chooses to allow newly promoted ROOGY (righty one-out guy) Rick White to pitch to way more than one guy, including some lefties. Not only is he using his worst reliever in a tie game (read: high leverage situations), but he’s not using him in an intelligent manner likely to produce his best possible performance. White promptly surrenders two runs, although he isn’t helped by a wild throw from Adrian Beltre and some horrendously bad luck when Gerald Laird somehow gets a bunt down on a pitch right at his helmet.
2) August 28th: The Angels have handed the Mariners an embarrassing defeat at the hands of ace John Lackey and now the Mariners have grabbed an early 5-0 lead in the middle game of this season-defining series. With Weaver obviously struggling to find his release point and leaving a lot of pitches up in the zone, McLaren chooses to leave him out there until he has well and truly blown the lead and brought the Angels right back into the game. This is a pattern you will see repeated as we progress. It is an unwritten rule in baseball that you never pull a starter if he still has a chance to get the win, but this is not the time to be fighting for Jeff Weaver’s baseball card stats. This is the time to be going aggressively for a win. McLaren certainly stands to face a lot of criticism if he pulls Weaver with the lead intact and the relievers can’t get the job done, but someone who is not managing to protect his job would make the appropriate call and go to his best relievers at the first signs of trouble.
3) August 28th: The score remains tied at 5 as the game pushes into the 7th inning. Sean Green gives up a lead-off walk to the #9 hitter (this is always trouble), but then following a sacrifice bunt, he strikes out Orlando Cabrera, bringing Vlad Guerrero to the plate with two outs and a runner at second. McLaren has Brandon Morrow and George Sherrill throwing in the pen and lefty Garret Anderson (who, by the way, has a large platoon split on average, making him vulnerable to a lefty-killer like Sherrill). He has a few choices here: he can walk Vlad, bring in the lefty to face Anderson (who delivered a couple of big hits earlier in the series) leaving him open to criticism if the struggling Sherrill can’t get the job done, he can opt to pitch carefully to Vlad (a known free swinger with a penchant for hitting home runs on pitches in the left handed batter’s box), or he can have Green go right after Vlad and try to get him out. He chooses to go right after their best slugger who promptly doubles on a belt high sinker to give the Angels the lead. He then chooses to walk Anderson and bring in Morrow, meaning the Mariners never manage to get Sherrill into the game until it is entirely too late.
4) August 28th: But wait, it gets uglier. The Mariners scratch out a run in the 7th to re-tie the score at 6, but in the 8th, Morrow struggles with his command and eventually gives up a double to put the Angels back on top by one. As they continue to threaten, McLaren again has Sherrill throwing in the pen, but along side him this time is (you guessed it) Rick White. Now maybe it’s just me, but with the heart of the Angels’ order coming and the Mariners down by just one run, I would want my best pitchers coming into the game to keep it close. McLaren is trying to save JJ Putz, however, for the almighty save situation. He doesn’t even warm him up in this all-important game. Instead, he brings in White to face Vlad and White promptly gets rocked and blows the game open.
5) August 30th: The Mariners and Indians are locked in quite a battle in the 9th inning, tied at 5. Borowski has already blown the save and the Indians are trying to bail him out. The Indians send the heart of their order to the plate in the bottom of the 9th but once again, McLaren refuses to even have Putz warming in the pen. In the post-game interview, he would confirm that he was saving Putz in case the Mariners got a lead in extra innings. He chooses to use Eric O’Flaherty, which is not a horrible decision in and of itself, but when the Indians put two on with one out, he doesn’t have Putz ready to put out the fire and is once again forced to use Rick White in a tie game. When White predictably walks in the winning run, McLaren sheepishly shrugs, and apparently doesn’t learn from his mistake.
6) August 31st: The Mariners fall behind early to the Blue Jays but plucky hitters that they are; they battle back and pull to within one run in the 8th inning. McLaren has managed to squander all of his best set-up arms the last few games trying in vein to keep Putz for that big save situation that never materialized. Now with his middle relievers and set-up men exhausted, he finally goes to Putz to pitch with the team trailing by one, and now that Putz has been sitting on his hands for six straight days he is obviously rusty. He struggles with the command of his splitter, making his fastball very hittable and he gives up a critical 7th run. The final score of the game was 7-5, so you may be wondering why that 7th run matters. The answer is simple. In the top of the ninth, the Mariners load the bases with one out against Jays’ closer Jeremy Accardo. In a two run game, the infielders can play back at normal depth and concede one run to get the second out. If the score were still 6-5, even the middle infielders (Hill and McDonald) would have been playing half way (still double play depth, but in close enough to go for the force at home if the ball is hit slowly up the middle). With Accardo on the ropes, Ibanez singles sharply up the middle…until Aaron Hill, playing back on the outfield turf, makes a spectacular diving catch and somehow flips the ball over his back in one smooth motion to McDonald who turns the double play on a stunned Raul, extending the losing streak to seven games. If it’s a one-run game, there’s no way Hill can make that play and the Mariners win it 7-6; it’s as simple as that.
7) September 1st: In a scoreless tie, McLaren bizarrely chooses to let Miguel Batista throw 120 pitches (when his previous high had been 114). One of the last of those pitches was a monster home run off the bat of Greg Zaun (a switch hitter who could just as easily have been facing George Sherrill form his weaker right side). Given the shaky performances from his relievers of late, I can understand not wanting to pull a pitcher too early, but McLaren has shown absolutely no confidence in Sherrill and Morrow and entirely too much confidence in over-exposed set-up man Sean Green. Do you suppose there’s a connection between Sherrill’s struggles since the arrival of McLaren and McLaren’s lack of interest in using Sherrill in high leverage situations? As the team fades, McLaren gets progressively less patient with his relievers and begins to panic, taking out pitchers if they give up so much as one walk.
8 ) September 5th: The lopsided, disgraceful umpiring in this frustrating 10-2 loss has been well documented and debated at detectovision.com, but McLaren isn’t blameless in this game. The implosion in the 7th inning didn’t happen suddenly. That half inning took almost 45 minutes to unfold, and Rafael Chaves and John McLaren came out to the mound an estimated four hundred thousand times. Michael Kay is a rather annoying play by play announcer, but he and his color man have watched winning baseball for over a decade and when they watched the Mariners try to contain the Yankees in the seventh with some of this panicky micro-management, Kay says, and I quote, “What kind of message does it send to your relievers if every time they get to a 2-0 count, you send the catcher and pitching coach out there to talk to them?” He went on to argue that McLaren was showing no faith in players who had gotten him wins all season and wondered whether this was contributing to their lack of command. At this point, with the Mariners’ season and John McLaren’s career teetering on the brink of destruction, McLaren is absolutely TERRIFIED to manage proactively, fearing that if the club doesn’t win games, his choices will be blamed. If he tries to coddle his pitchers and they let him down, he can’t be at fault, can he? The officiating in this game definitely cost the Mariners the win, and the Mariners’ relievers definitely failed to respond well to adversity, and you could make an argument that McLaren should have pitched around A-Rod in the 7th, but the most important thing that happened in this game was that the Mariners’ field general panicked visibly, and all of his players followed his example.
9) September 8th: Not only does McLaren once again leave his starting pitcher in way too long (Weaver was obviously ineffective and McLaren decided to press his luck for a sixth inning out of Weaver, who promptly put the Mariners in a jam from which they couldn’t escape), but with the game still well within reach (6-8) in the 7th inning, and the bases loaded, evidently unhappy that Rick White has been released, he opts to bring in Sean White (equally unreliable) who puts the game out of reach. He demonstrates absolutely no feel for the important moments in a ballgame and how best to get his team on the right track in those moments and he still has no faith in his best relievers, pulling Rowland Smith after a pair of walks, both of which were on bad calls (he was definitely being squeezed, especially on his breaking ball) to go to a much worse reliever just to get a righty vs. righty match-up, for example.
10) September 9th: The Mariners exploded for 13 runs in the first 4 innings, but McLaren still managed scared, forcing Felix Hernandez to throw way too many low leverage pitches (112) and using his best relievers to nail down a lopsided win. The way things have been going for McLaren, he’s managed to get bad relievers high leverage innings, good relievers, low leverage innings, and starting pitchers extra runs on their records by overusing them, all because he’s been trying to do the safe thing and avoid criticism. It’s been a brutal hack job from the Mariner dugout, and it’s the single largest reason the club is in free fall.
Dr. D watched the team run their record to 73-53 despite a lack of “support from the generals” as he puts it (a lack of impact trades made at the deadline) and play inspiring, coordinated baseball. He’s watched Ichiro sign a five-year extension, saying “this is finally a team worth playing for.” He’s heard Ichiro complain about the terrible umpiring in New York, and not say one negative word about the attitude in the clubhouse or the team’s focus, and yet (without even watching the games, no less!) he has concluded that the Mariners have fallen apart because their front office didn’t get them Ken Griffey Jr and because they got smoked by the Angels, putting it into their head that they’re not the top dogs.
I concede that losing to the Angels may have taken some of the wind out of their sails but it doesn’t explain a 2 for 15 slump. They’re five out in the wild card now because John McLaren has personally thrown several games right out the window with his incompetence and because in between bizarre game-breaking decisions, he’s showing no confidence in his players and looking panicked out there, and the Mariners are playing the way he’s managing…panicked. They make mistakes of aggression almost every day, from getting thrown out at home to overthrowing the cutoff man to unwisely trying to get an out on what is clearly an infield hit and turning it into a three base error to swinging at the first pitch even more than usual.
This is not a team that has “quit,” as some around the blogosphere have suggested. A little quit in these guys might actually HELP! They’re trying so hard to get the ship righted that they’re throwing runs away (on both sides of the ball). If they would relax, they would win some of these close games. This is a team that is being lead by a coward who is thinking only of his next job and is therefore paralyzed in the face of even minor adversity. John McLaren is not only a bad manager, he’s a wuss, and the single most important explanation for why this team has gone from a group of overachievers to a pack of wannabes overnight.












September 9th, 2007 at 8:45 pm Quote
Incidentally, Doc…any reference I have made to you in this post is not meant in mean spirit…I’m hoping I can prod you into answering the question of how you can claim to know what ails the Mariners when you have not even watched the games in this losing streak? It pains me greatly but I get my hopes up every danged day and turn the game on and pray that this will be the day we get on a roll, and I watch every game. You would think a guy like you who takes the “field level” view very seriously would put some stock in the interpretation offered by one of the very few bloggers in Mariner fandom who has forced himself to watch every game and almost every pitch.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pm Quote
Please leave John McLaren.. tip your cap.. thank everyone for giving you a chance.. and gracefully exit to “spend more time with your family”… Or go find your way to Chicago to be Lou’s bench coach..
He’s done a horrendous job during this losing streak.. Bullpen mismanagement and a total lack of action to break this team out of it’s funk.. Not to mention he’s abused Felix twice in a month, making him throw 110+ laboring pitches when Felix had nothing, and we were blowing out the opposition…
September 9th, 2007 at 8:53 pm Quote
I agree that the team hasn’t quit.. more of a case of realization that their best isn’t good enough.. I also think that the competitive edge they were playing with, kinda left them after the Anaheim beatdown.. thus resulting in guys like Weaver and others, who were playing over their head, have lost a little bit of the desire to focus and execute every time out..
The biggest knock on McLaren is that he has found no way to get the team refocused and has made in game moves that just hamper the team’s chances even further
September 9th, 2007 at 9:28 pm Quote
Can’t we just pretend the M’s went fishing the last two weeks? Reliving history is far too painful.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:36 pm Quote
LOL!
True…but unfortunately…to learn we must relive these games and get an understand as to what went wrong.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:43 pm Quote
BTW, I wonder how much of this is due to McLaren’s inexperience. McLaren has been playing at the nickel tables for his career and now, in the blink of an eye of a depressed Hargrove, he’s at the big money tables. He hasn’t had a chance to learn on the job since he was dumped right into the middle of the pennant chase. Given how many respected people think highly of Mac it is entirely possible given time he would be a good manager.
Of course that doesn’t help us now. Also I find it interesting that the M’s, who are very risk averse to rookies in the lineup or rotation, have no problem handing over control of the team to a rookie manager in the middle of the pennant chase. Though, thinking about it a little bit more, they probably never dreamed of putting Mac in this situation. Either things would go well and Hargrove would be at the helm, or things would fall apart and Hargrove would get canned (giving Mac the rest of the year to learn in a low pressure environment). In fact, because of this, even with a total collapse I think the M’s give him a pass.
*sigh* Who woulda thunk that we would long for the days the “Human Brain Delay” was the captain of this ship?
September 9th, 2007 at 10:04 pm Quote
Over on Churchill’s site.. he seems convinced that Lincoln, Bavasi, and others in upper management have no interest in keeping McLaren past this season
September 9th, 2007 at 10:09 pm Quote
Garret Anderson has a large platoon split this year? He’s hitting lefties better than righties!
September 9th, 2007 at 10:17 pm Quote
I disagree with most of the above. I think the team has come back to earth. For some time they’ve been playing over their heads. Throughout the season the starting rotation has not engendered fear in the hearts of the opposition. At best the Ms have a mediocre starting five and have actually exceeded my expectations prior to these last two weeks. At the start of the season I thought that Ramirez would fall apart in April and Weaver would be wavering as usual. I figured a slightly better than a .500 ballteam. At best I though they could back into the playoffs like the Cardinals last year.
September 9th, 2007 at 10:42 pm Quote
Well Duke, you’re certainly entitled to that opinion and this team is making you look prescient right now the way they’re playing. I personally don’t buy it…this isn’t some market correction in my view…they look like a different team out there right now…it’s not easy to see it at first glance, but some of the mistakes they’re making right now they flat out would not have made three weeks ago.
Re: Garret Anderson, the “this year” is in error…his career lefty platoon split is less than stellar (89 sOPS+ to 105 sOPS+ agaisnt righties)…as y’all know, generally I don’t put any stock in single-season splits…I don’t know how that got in there. I’ll fix it.
September 9th, 2007 at 10:53 pm Quote
BTW, on the subject of McLaren’s inexperience, I definitely think it’s possible that McLaren would be a good manager if he had an opportunity to start from scratch…build a team in HIS image and work his way into managing in pressure situations.
Remember how much we HATED Bob Melvin here in Seattle? We called him BLOWMel. Remember that? He was bad at bullpen management too. He rode the veterans too hard and hey…he blew out Bobby Madritsch’s arm too…made him throw way too many pitches in meaningless games. Sound familiar?
Now he’s getting manager of the year consideration and has the DBacks playing way WAAAAAAYYYY over their heads.
But the Mariners are in “win now” mode…we need an experienced winner…NOW. We can’t wait 2 years for McLaren or anyone else to learn how to manage.
September 9th, 2007 at 11:03 pm Quote
I don’t think you should EVER build a team around a manager’s image. What one must do is bring in a manager that matches the team’s image. Look at it from a logic point. Do you invest $100+ million in a manager or a roster?
September 10th, 2007 at 1:18 am Quote
One hundred percent true, Matt. As if the 28 August debacle weren’t bad enough, your recounting of other terrible decisions (probably lost to many of us numbed by the streak) portrays an individual who is at a complete loss, one whose command of the situation has vanished. Far too many are willing to give McLaren a pass because of “inexperience.” I don’t understand that argument at all. McLaren has been in baseball his entire life. What he has displayed on the field is a conspicuous lack of understanding of the M’s capabilities and limitations, from writing out the lineup to in-game tactics. Game after game, he has not put the M’s in the best position to win. The game has passed him by; it’s sad the M’s front office didn’t recognize it before handing him the job as manager.
September 10th, 2007 at 4:50 am Quote
I don’t mean we should tear down the roster to help McLaren manage more effectively…but McLaren walked into someone else’s program and probably felt like he needed to manage with someone else’s rulebook coming in…hoping to “not rock the boat” with the important players on the team. Which could certainly have made it more difficult to manage with his unique style and put pressure on him that made him panic when things started to go south.
I see a man desperate to prove he belongs as a manager and showing that desperation to his players…McLaren needs to learn that his attitude is the first example his players look to in times like these. When Lou Piniella’s teams played poorly, he didn’t panic, he got fired up and started making changes to shake up the monotony.
September 10th, 2007 at 8:28 am Quote
So, Mac gets a lifetime extension then.
September 10th, 2007 at 8:38 am Quote
I’m totally baffled by McLaren. The 2001 team he was an integral part of had many characteristics totally opposite of the way he manages this team. The full 25 Man Roster was managed brilliantly.
Lou and Mac used every player to the maximum. Starters were rested, bench players got enough playing time to stay focused, and the bullpen was managed to perfection. Bottom line, players were put into a position to succeed.
When regular hitters are not rested, especially when they are slumping they tend to press, their numbers get worse and worse, and their confidence falls. When bench players are not used in situations to their advantage they become rusty and press, believing that every AB must be a home run or they’ll never get another AB. Starting pitchers need to be taken out at the first sign of trouble or their ERA goes through the roof and the team losses games. Relief pitchers need to be used in situations where they can succeed, and the matchup is to their advantage.
The manager has a lot of effect of the team in how he manages his players. Yes, he needs the right buttons to push, but he can maximize his players numbers in how he uses them. So, why has Mac suddenly become so stupid?
I’ve go to go with Matt, it’s two things. First, he seems to be managing as Mike would. This is the team that Hargrove and Bavasi built and he is trying to stick with their philosophy, only doing very badly at it. Second, I have to agree, he is in total panic mode and that is effecting this team badly.
September 10th, 2007 at 10:36 am Quote
I wouldn’t complain too loudly about leaving Felix out there for the full 5 innings. Especially since we’ve seen all of the bullpen dudes (sans J.J. who’d probably do so, due to rustiness) really struggle as of late. A huge lead, with this exhausted bullpen, was NOT safe yesterday. A lot of them are worn out. When you include the games where he’s warmed up, but not come into the game, GS52 has ‘appeared’ in over 100 games already. That’s a lot, even for George. Using him in mopup is gripe-worthy…
But, I’m picking nits here. McLaren’s managing has definitely cost the M’s some wins. And, it’s likely sent them in this current tailspin. It certainly hasn’t helped get them out of it. And that’s a big part of what a manager’s supposed to do.
September 10th, 2007 at 11:17 am Quote
OK - the 9/5 game had awful officiating, but so did a game btw the Yanks and Ms back in May at Yankee Stadium where Bloomquist was out and was called safe. The play changed the game. So consider it even that the umps messing up goes both ways in terms of the Yanks and the Ms. Now of course I would prefer that instant replay was used for base running calls (similar to a system for football and tennis) and the umps getting it right, as opposed to things “evening out”.
I think the concern should be that Armstrong thinks the Ms did “good enough” that enables both Bavasi and McLaren to keep their jobs.
September 10th, 2007 at 11:53 am Quote
So of the games listed above, the M’s lost seven. At worst, McClaren lost the team 3 of those seven games. So best case scenario has them going 5-10 over the past 15 games with a first rate tactician at the helm and more likely 4-11. The point I am making is that I think that McClaren has managed poorly and the players have played poorly. They were outscored 2:1 during most of this losing streak and I just don’t see how the manager can be held accountable for the majority of the teams failures, unless you think that his poor managing caused a collapse in the team confidence.
September 10th, 2007 at 1:46 pm Quote
Where do you get the “3 of those 7″ part Kelly? I think McLaren single-handed cost the Mariners SIX of those 7 losses.
His management has done three things.
1) he has inflated the team’s runs allowed by pulling effective relievers after they walk one guy or to get his all-important lefty/lefty and righty/righty match-ups, by leaving his starters…especially Washburn and Hernandez…in waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy too long and by refusing to use Ryan Rowland Smith, George Sherrill, and newly added Jorge Campillo in meaningful ways while overusing Green, Morrow and O’Flaherty to the point where they’ve lost their effectiveness due to fatigue and overexposure.
2) He has messed with the team’s confidence by showing very obvious panic during this losing streak and you can see it in the faces of the players…they are now panicking too…making stupid mistakes of over-aggression all the time, gripping the bat too tightly, gripping the ball too tightly (especially Felix and Batista lately…lots of spiked breaking balls and high fastballs), and generally pressing.
3) He has continued Hargrove’s bad habit of overusing his regulars and not getting his benchies enough at bats, causing fatigue in the guys he plays and rust in the guys he doesn’t.
All of those things have DIRECTLY CAUSED the big run differential you’re talking about Kelly. It’s not that the Mariners are playing badly and oh BTW McLaren has added to the rpoblem…it’s that the Mariners are playing badly BECAUSE McLaren has made it so. He’s doing just about EVERYTHING wrong…seriously…sit and watch these games and you will see it…players tend to take on the personality of their manager…our manager is frustrated, panicked, and cowardly. The players…the ones who played honorable, professional, and relaxed baseball under Hargrove and got into the pennant chase using that style…are now also panicky, frustrated, and cowardly (with a few exceptions…namely Raul Ibanez, Jose Guillen, Ichiro, Johjima and Adrian Beltre…those five are the tough guys on the team that are playing good ball despite the losses).
September 10th, 2007 at 1:47 pm Quote
To JB…so…you’re comparing ONE (!!!!) bad call that went the Mariners way to more than TWO DOZEN bad calls that went the Yankees’ way and calling that a fair balance?
September 10th, 2007 at 1:49 pm Quote
Paul…good point about the pen being overworked already and Felix kinda being the guy we need to go deep into games and rest the pen. But in a 7 run game (even if you don’t consider that safe), is it wort the risk to Felix down the road to have him throwing 110= pitches when you could be handing the ball to Jorge Campillo or Ryan Feierabend?
September 10th, 2007 at 2:08 pm Quote
Matt — I was just using an example and there are plenty of calls that go against ALL teams. I realize that you are upset that your team has imploded as of late, but if you want to start yelling instead of having a constructive discussion, then I guess that is your choice. And by the way, why don’t you start by listing the two dozen calls that went the Yanks way?
September 10th, 2007 at 3:24 pm Quote
Most of those 2 dozen calls were on ball-strike calls where video evidence suggests the pitch was one thing and the umpire called it another and the call always benefited the Yankees. I didn’t yell BTW apart from the !!! I added to emphasize the difference between one and two dozen. The formatting in the post comments section doesn’t always work right so I choose to use caps when I want to emphasize a word…it’s faster and more reliable.
If you want a list that includes a dozen or so bad calls, just watch the bottom of the seventh inning. That half inning in particular was egregiously unfair to the Mariners with strike calls being missed left and right. And let’s not forget the two bad calls on Ichiro’s baserunning, the several bad strike calls Hughes got during his start, especially when there were people on base…it was just a terrible job the entire game.
September 10th, 2007 at 3:40 pm Quote
Side Note!
I just noticed today that MLB.com has added an in-game chat feature to their site. It’s a little blue quote-box icon thingy next to the game in the score bar on the left. DOV’s chat feature never really took off (too hard to catch people online), but it’d be kinda fun to chat with some folks I know during the Mariners games in the future…feee to sign up for a screen name and a nice addition to the site.
September 10th, 2007 at 4:35 pm Quote
For me, this is a combination of a few things:
1) The team wasn’t good enough to start with.
2) The team lost confidence after their series with the Angels and quit, partly due to #1.
3) Inept coaching. First Hargrove and now McLaren.
September 10th, 2007 at 5:08 pm Quote
The tea was 73-53 after 126 games. We weren’t as good as the Angels, but they were (are) a playoff worthy team IMHO. A little managing skill and we’d still be right with the Yankees.
September 11th, 2007 at 12:49 pm Quote
All I can say is that most managers would have started powercycling through different lineups, different guys at different positions both in the lineup and on the field, until several guys started hitting well again.
Also, he would’ve ditched hurlers that weren’t pitching well and thumbed through different relievers until he found guys who consistently got the outs he needed.
Argue all you want about his general abilities or inabilities, but the one way in which John McLaren has failed this team is his stubborn refusal to change things in the present when they clearly were not working in the present, whether or not they worked in the past (notwithstanding his inexplicable usage of Rick White; a manager shouldn’t make that mistake more than once, if at all).
September 11th, 2007 at 1:46 pm Quote
Precisely Gomez.
September 11th, 2007 at 6:00 pm Quote
Yeah I agree as well. It is up to the manager to get the right combo of players in/out of the game so our team can have the best ‘chance of winning’ every night. Not only did McLaren NOT do this, he still isn’t doing it. It’s like a video where some stupid kid goes to bounce a basketball off the gym floor only to have it quickly bounce off his face; something should be learned here. McLaren continues to bounce the ball off his face. (Okay, so it’s barely like that, but it is a fun image.)
His mistakes are rarely remedied. I will admit that a couple times, I would be screaming for him to pull the starting pitcher, “NOW!!”, and to my amazement, here comes Johnny. For those fleeting moments I felt like, ‘hey, finally he knows what he’s doing’, then come to find out he’s bringing in John Parrish/Rick White. Looking back, if I am screaming for change (as a slightly above average fan), then something is blatenly obvious. He should know at least 1 batter before I do, when a pitcher is done. And if I know he shouldn’t be bringing in JP/RW, then for the love of something holy, why aren’t these calls white/black to him. Oh I remember, he’s a BENCHCOACH!!
I would seriously enjoy ANOTHER teary eyed departure about how,’this ship deserves a true captain’, or ‘my family needs me’, or a simple demotion due to a Giradi/Valentine hiring.
It was a collapse of epic scale…..precisely timed with my purchase of tickets to the final 3 games, and airfair, and giant foam finger, and…well, at least I should see some of the kids. I will need some company to get past this chokefest, 8$ beers anyone?
September 11th, 2007 at 11:00 pm Quote
I enjoyed reading McLaren’s comment today about how the team now is “going to have to start focusing on the wild card”…
Season is over John.. WTF are u talking about..
September 11th, 2007 at 11:07 pm Quote
LOL!! Oh NOW you tell them to focus on the wild card! Not 8 days ago when we were still in contention for said wildcard.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:07 am Quote
My only question is this. How is it that McClaren wasn’t in any way responsible for the 13-4 record prior to the collapse? Either the Manager can and does win/lose games, or he doesn’t. The Ms go 13-4 — then they go 2-15.
Okay, maybe he was making bad moves and tactical choices during the current 2-15 skid, but that begs the question - why wasn’t he doing so during the 13-4 surge?
To a degree, this is rhetorical - but while the streakiness of the 9 civics lineup may be debateable - the streakiness of the 2-Chevettes, 1-Pinto and 2-Yugo rotation isn’t. I think, to some degree, McClaren should take blame for not doing ANYTHING to pull the club from its nose-dive. The vapor lock makes sense to me based on the concept you’ve got a new manager where everything was working just fine - then suddenly, EVERY move he makes, (whether smart or not), blows up in his face.
Little surprise to me that having watched the club go through several two week doldrums before he took over - only to pull THEMSELVES out of the funk, (with no changes by Hargrove), that McClaren would expect the ship to right itself. The club DID start pressing, (and I think to a degree, based on the observations cited on this board, so did McClaren). The team has been remade almost completely from stem to stern since the last playoff appearance. Ichiro is about the only guy who has been through a SUCCESSFUL pennant run before. The club, (predictably), believed that the way to get out of the well was to “play harder”. That’s about the worst thing you can do when things are going badly.
In the end, I cannot blame management for McClaren. They didn’t plan on giving him the reins, but he was the TEAM’s choice at the time. And while one may not WANT a manager to learn on-the-job in a pennant race, they really had no other option. It’s a shame he hasn’t been able to turn the club around - but this has been a team-wide collapse.
September 12th, 2007 at 8:24 am Quote
The hitters are still having good at bats Sandy. The offense isn’t (by in large) doing anything differently or playing ineffectively. The bullpen is the difference right now. The starters are pitching a bit worse at the wrong time (because the bullpen is now exhausted and they’re not getting any help).
Yes…there are player performances that help to explain why we’re losing. But McLaren is partially to blame for the bullpen getting tired with his 6 relievers a game strategy. Even when the club was winning games, he was using 4-5-6 relievers every night…going to guys to get one out and one out only…burning his best arms by making them warm up for an inning and then face one frickin’ batter.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:23 pm Quote
Matt, didja see that your article got linked up here … ’bout halfway down on Sept 10.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:16 pm Quote
Cool.
Although I am pretty certain it means I will never EVER get to work for the Ms.
September 12th, 2007 at 10:33 pm Quote
You knew that when you deigned to speak with me amigo :- ) … don’ sweat it, there are 29 other clubs you can help turn around!
September 12th, 2007 at 11:39 pm Quote
LOL! Yep…the Ms weren’t my first choice anyway…they wouldn’t listen to me much and they’d be breathing down my neck all the time with their micro-management. I’d like to work for a smallish market team with enough revenue to compete with the right policy and with a more progressive mindset toward sabermetrics.
September 13th, 2007 at 7:06 am Quote
Matt, you would go bug-eyed-crazy working for the M’s. Olkin must be a serene zen master.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:27 pm Quote
He is. :- ) You’ve hardly met a more unflappable guy.
Super nice, too. Mat has the people-skills part of GM’ing down pat.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:19 pm Quote
hold the phone! I know…I’m just being a stupid optimist here…but we’re playing the Devil Rays and the Yankees are playing the Red Sox…and we just showed why the Devil Rays are easy pickings for a team of good hitters like ours. If we can sweep the Rays and the Yankees get swept by Boston…we’ll be awfully close to NY.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:03 pm Quote
I think you’re on to something there Matt! Bet McLaren’s thinking the same thing. Better keep running out a lineup of vets + bloomquist, can’t risk playing the kids when you’re in the hunt like this.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:28 pm Quote
LOL! Course…I would try to get back in it by playing Jones.
September 15th, 2007 at 8:12 am Quote
‘Nuff said.
Actually - no it’s not. I read this, this morning, and wanted to spit out my coffee. Wanted to scream out, “You imbecile!”. Wanted to just forget completely about this ridiculously run franchise for a while.
Back in the other thread, the Mariners philosophy of “don’t lose”, rather than “try to win” is discussed. Here’s yet another example. “He’s the best pitcher we had there, for about a 6 game stretch”. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER GAMES??? Arrrggh!
Sorry, I absolutely needed to rant…I just…I’m absolutely dumbfounded. If the Yankees can put future HOF Mussina on the bench for performance reasons, surely the M’s can do the same with Mope Weaver…there just can’t be confusion here.